Adult Baby Diaper Print
Adult Baby Diaper Print
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Adding references to 'Origins' section.
Note: My "talk" entry below was made after I had attempted to rewrite the Origin section more in alignment with Wiki policy, but user: James Cantor had just deleted the section. He had also apparently deleted the same section several times before in an edit war with an earlier editor. Note by Scott P. (talk) 20:40, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
The need for references is understood. As I stated above, I really was hoping that someone else would step in to help with this. I will add two references per week. Seeing as this section was left standing for 2 years without any references, I would hope that a few more weeks with only partial referencing might be tolerated. I have just added one reference, and will add another by the end of the day.
Thanks,
Scott P. (talk) 19:44, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
RFC: Allowing a section regarding the 'Origins of AB/DL' on this page, and reference standards therein
An editing war seems to have erupted regarding two questions:
- Should a section regarding the 'Origins of paraphilic infantilism' be permitted in this article?
- If this section is allowed, then what reference standards should apply in this section?
Any leading comments by editors who have not recently contributed to this article would be appreciated. Thanks,
Scott P. (talk) 20:24, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
(Outdenting) I regret that, contrary to wikipedia policy, no assumptions of good faith were made when Scott P. offered a schedule for finding additional references nor was there any acceptance that wikipedia is a work in progress. His offer was ignored. The material was redeleted along with the new reference that he added. This suggests that this week's edit war between James Cantor and Scott P., like last week's edit war between James Cantor and myself, was driven by some other desire. References were merely the justification.
Technically, WP:V doesn't quantify how many references are needed. Similarly, the guidlines about references are equally open to interpretation. WP:3RR does specify a quantity - four or more reverts - which James Cantor has already violated regarding this issue.
As for MishMich, two weeks ago he rushed to support James Cantor regarding three self-promotional ELs, only checking those ELs himself several hours later. This suggests that he is nowhere near as uninvolved as he claims.
Now, if we could get some truly unbiased editors involved, then an environment of good faith might possibly be restored. In this current environment, it seems that any new contributions, no matter how well referenced, will be deleted thoughtlessly. BitterGrey (talk) 23:56, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
- "impersonating an infant and being treated as one by the partner - one of the stigmatic/eligibilic paraphilias" Gay, straight and in-Between
- "erotic fixation on acting like and being treated as an infant." The lovemap guidebook
- Money, John: Love Maps - Clinical Concepts of Sexual/Erotic Health and Pathology, Paraphilia, and Gender Transpostition in Childhood, Adolescence, and Maturity , New York, Prometheus Books, 1986
Thanks for the info, MishMich. From the Wikipedia page about John Money it appears that there's controversy about his work. Therefore, while I think perhaps that book can be used as a reference, I suggest that at least one additional reference should also be found. (Either supporting Money's POV, or opposing it, or some refs that do each; ideally, find out what the POVs of many reliable sources is and determine due weight for each POV.) Here's a reference I just found via a google scholar search; it may or may not be relevant (I don't see the word "infantilism" in it): Chapter 2 of Sex Offenders: Identification, Risk Assessment, Treatment, and Legal Issues AuthorsFabian M. Saleh, Albert J. Grudzinskas, John M. Bradford, Paul Appelbaum, Daniel J. Brodsky EditorsFabian M. Saleh, Albert J. Grudzinskas, John M. Bradford, Daniel J. Brodsky Oxford University Press US, 2009 ISBN 0195177045, 9780195177046. When giving a book as a reference, page numbers should be given. By the way: consider possibly titling the section with a word such as "causes" or "development" or something instead of "origins", since I wondered whether "origins" meant origin of the theory or what. ☺ Coppertwig (talk) 01:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
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Support inclusion with appropriate references
The question at the RFC page is whether a section about PI's origin should be included, and if so, what kind of sources should be used. My answer is "Yes, and the 'usual' kinds of sources, as spelled out in the standard policies and guidelines" -- which is to say, that the majority of information in the this article should be adequately referenced by high-quality, non-controversial, scientific, secondary sources (such as textbooks, reference manuals, and scholarly papers), and that any minority views (e.g., John Money's) should be included with the best possible source that accurately represents the view. These sources (for both mainstream and dissident views) will always directly and specifically say what we assert in this article, including specifically naming this particular condition, and the section's contents should be limited to what is actually said in these sources.
Since this is all so perfectly obvious from the policies, I can't really imagine why this question requires an RfC. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Continued removal of references
Since there are people marking this article unreferenced on a phrase-by-phrase basis, references should not be arbitrarily merged merely to leave phrases unreferenced. The continued removal of references suggests that the continuing series of deletions was never about references, but something else. If both sides would be honest about their objectives, perhaps we could work together to achieve them. My objective is to provide a reliable and meaningful encyclopedia article. BitterGrey (talk) 13:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
"Origins/ Causes" section
I have now re-inserted the previous "Origins" section, and renamed it "Causes". While doing so, I have also inserted copious references. Scott P. (talk) 17:52, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Deleted 2 to 1 AB to DL ratio without documentation
The intro had an undocumented statistic, claiming that the ratio of AB's to DL's is 2 to 1. This statistic was added in the edit: Ratio insertion. If this could first be properly documented, then re-inserted into the article, this would be helpful. Scott P. (talk) 02:01, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
- Section 10 - Into the Future Retrieved 2002 from http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Island/5861/ds3_s10.txt, now mirrored at http://web.archive.org/web/20010424192400/www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Island/5861/DS3_S10.txt
- Thomas John Speaker, Psychosexual Infantilism in Adults: The Eroticization of Regression. Columbia Pacific University. pg 93. Available from: DPF, Sausalito, CA 94965.
- Pate J.E., Gabbard G.O. (2003). Adult baby syndrome Am J Psychiatry 160:1932–1936
Clarifying AB vs: DL vs: Paraphilic Infantilism
It seems to me that there may be a muddling of terminology. The distinction between AB's and DL's seems clear enough. But whether or not DL is or is not a form of paraphilic infantilism seems to me to be muddled. I would suggest that because a diaper is something normally only worn by infants, that a DL ought to be considered as a subcategory of paraphilic infantilism. Attempting to separate DL's into a separate and basically mutually exclusive category seems to me to be counterproductive, very confusing, and contrary to the etymology of the term "paraphilic infantilism". Even though some psychologists and psychiatrists may sometimes seem to prefer to create a myriad of confusing, overlapping and even misleading diagnosis, I think that it would best serve us to try to place all diaper related behaviors and fantasies under the umbrella term "paraphilic infantilism". As far as I have been able to determine, the DSM only mentions infantilism, paraphilic infantilism, diaper fetishism and autonepiophilia in passing, without laying out any clear distinctions between these four, and without making any attempt to delineate the exact relationship between them. I assert that all of these things ought to be under the umbrella term of paraphilic infantilism because the terminology means essentially: A love of infantile things, and a diaper is an infantile thing, and the diaper seems to be central to nearly all of this.
Scott P. (talk) 13:03, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
DSM Verifiability
Personally, I do not believe tha
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