Canned Cat Food Innova
Canned Cat Food Innova
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thanks! rewrote vegetarian section
rewrote the vegetarian section so that it complies with NPOV, as in its previous form it was so long it placed undue emphasis on the section. Further it was structured more like a comment board discussion, rather than an encyclopedia article; there was back and forth contradictions instead of a succinct explanation of the issues. Also the way sources were used were problemenatic. All these problems were corrected as best as I could, and I documented tediously the process. PLEASE do not simply revert to that tragic text, or add anything of the sort back in. Please discuss here in talk before any editor wants to from the course I have laid out. Thanks for everyone's help with spelling punctuation and citation checks! Retran (talk) 08:43, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
rewriting vege/vega cat food section
I'm fed up. This whole section is a major quality problem on an article rated of high importance. It's one giant WP:NPOV violation and we should be ashamed. Too much of this info is unsourced, (and has been so for too long so its being removed if its unsourced). Also, its absurdly long. Here it goes. Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
"...and is targeted primarily at vegan and vegetarian pet owners" seems problematic POV violation, as all cat food is marketed towards human pet owners. The natural implication of the statement as written would be the food would not exist if it were not for the demands of the owners for such a food. Again, that's true of ALL cat food (and all pet food). Its emphasis here seems to be a tricky way to single out vegetarian cat owners as buying a food for their own human purposes, rather than the pets. Yet all cat food is made for human buyers. Cats never purchase food.
The Wakefield et al. source.... While I'm happy to see peer reviewed material, I'm not happy to see it used like this. This is an encyclopedic entry regarding vegan cat food. I would argue that this article is not about the buyers of cat food and their existential differences with other cat food buyers. This section is just about vegan/vegeterian cat food. We describe it, profile its history, etc. A statement like this seems to be justifying its existence as if its in question. Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
The constant re-emphasis of cats being "obligate carnivors" could be a NPOV violation, as such I'm removing its constant referallal in this section. We already have been informed in the top of this article that cats are obligate carnivores, that they have evolves especially for prey-procurement and meat digestion. We could further go on to counter that by saying they've been subjigated and enslaved by humans so long that its not so important how they're classified, but that its just important they get proper nutrition. The nutrition alone of vegan/vegetarian cat food should be evaluated in this section. Re-emphasising the fact cats are carnivores (no matter how true it is, and perhaps relevant) in this section is therefore, in my opinion, another sneaky NPOV violation. (It's relevance has already been addressed). Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
"companies attempt to correct these deficiencies by supplementing their products with synthetically produced nutrients"... Very much another NPOV violation i would argue. There is definitely normal meaty cat food which contains isolated nutrients applied during manufacture, just the same as vegan/vege. Also, the whole "synthetic" description is does not seem precise, as its nutrient isolation, and there's many ways to isolate nutrients to apply them to foods... not just synthesis. I suppose this could be a misreading of the mentioned source, or it could be a problematic source? Either way its an NPOV violation so the source doesn't matter. Its NPOV violation because its placing undue emphasis on the fact that vegatarian cat food contains isolated nutrients, when in fact nearly all marketed cat food does. Plus, look how it uses the word "attempt", when no such treatment is made of meaty cat food in this article, (and if it is that would be absurd, i'd have to change it, as it would be an NPOV violation in and of itself). The "attempt" term makes it seem as if the foods status as a valid cat diet is in question. That should be addressed in a controversy paragraph (if at all) and anywhere else in the vegetarian cat food info section. Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
"According to the National Research Council, "Cats require specific nutrients, not specific feedstuffs." This is just more arguing and bickering within the paragraph, and the issue of nutrients has been addressed. It seems to be a great source for the previous statement, but the sentence itself is redundant and/or seems to be making a case for vegan/vega cat food diet. Leaving the sentence there could be NPOV violation because by making a case, it would be invaliding the ethical reasoning for ever using meat-based cat food. I argue that the juxtaposed ethical reasonings belongs in our hypothetical controversy paragraph (if we ever get there). Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
This statement is bizzare "To use the science of nutrition that is still in its infancy..." If nutritional Science is still in its "infancy" there's hosts of other sciences that are still in their "infancy". What i mean is that while this Dr is an expert in some regard, that's a sweeping value judement on Nutritional Science. I'm not making a call weather or not its "in its infancy" but the statement isn't pertinent to our description of vegan cat food. I can address the absurdity of trying to discredit a broad range of Science elsewhere. Its a big NPOV violation, no matter what. And its doubtful to be a notable enough of a man or statement to even make it into our still hypothetical controversy paragraph. Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Again to the Wakefield et al. study. The problem is you cannot cite a single study and use that as a basis to pronounce a conclusion. Scientific method requires rigor and using a scientific paper like this to make a very specific conclusion is misusing science. The information is there, but without the rigor we cannot draw such a conclusion. Even stating that the authors paper came to that conclusion in the study would be an NPOV violation. I certainly wish I had access to this paper, but even without knowing its conclusions, I find the way its been used in this article problematic. All-though, very understandably well meaning. Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Okay... on to more use of peer reviewed science! The Gray et. al. 2004 paper. When you begin your sentence with "The authors recommended" you've done something wrong. The author recommendation is analysis (not the rigor) of the actual science in the paper. While the authors conclusion is notable and significant in a scientific perspective to those interested in cat nutrition, inserting the conclusion is more about the controversy, not the actual data or info behind.... But the info. That's the nice thing in this article. They take a comparison of two vegan cat foods and see if it really meets the labeling. Perfect citable stuff. The only problem I have is what if that study was done to normal meaty cat foods? Were the vegan cat foods selected for the study notable in the vegan cat food market? And goodness, why only TWO. Those are problems i have with the study. But its perfectly citable here I would argue without violating NPOV because it states these facts and it seems in context. It all hinges on if the two foods in question are in fact notable, and if the facts surrounding the nutritional mislableing found in the study are timely. 2004, is that timely? Then notice in the next paragraph there is a response, yet enough time has passed that this does not need to be discussed in a current-event format. What i'm doing is saying this is a stale issue and removing all reference to it. Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm committing my above noted changes right now. I've removed the whole intra-vegan/vegetarian treatment for the moment, I'm incorporating all of it into a new paragraph right now (see below). But I'm committing the changes separately because its a highly important article, and so they can be seen and discussed separately as well. Retran (talk) 07:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
I'm changing the text of "Cats require nutrients..." because that's obvious and an NPOV violation, its sufficiently known every animal has its own nutrient requirement. And is addressed in another sentence Retran (talk) 07:50, 9 March 2010 (UTC) What I did was incorporated the singled out meaty nutrients, and removed B-12 because most every animal I know of has to get B-12 on from something else... (it is not a condition unique to cats to require premade B-12 from some other source). Retran (talk) 08:09, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
Now on to the "Controversy" paragraph. Yes, I'm determined to limit it to one paragraph. What things would be notable to include in a controversy? Well, notable claims from notable organizations that are opposed to one another. It needs to set out that some folks fee
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