Kid Friendly All Inclusive Vacation
Kid Friendly All Inclusive Vacation
Opening paragraphs
Common ground
For background on this decision, see Archive3
I think we're very close to something useable and it's just a matter of a couple of words. Let's try to find the common ground between these two:
- Alcoholism is the consumption of alcoholic beverages—which contain the drug ethanol—to the extent that such use causes physical or mental harm, or interferes with the drinker's normal personal, family, social, or work life. Such chronic use causes a diseased condition marked by psychological and physiological disorders.
- Alcoholism is the urge to consume alcoholic beverages to an extent that results in physical or mental harm, or interferes with the drinker's normal personal, family, social, or work life. The resulting chronic use can result in many psychological and physiological disorders.
What about this:
- 3. Alcoholism is the consumption of, or preoccupation with, alcoholic beverages to an extent that such use causes physical or mental harm, or interferes with the drinker's normal personal, family, social, or work life. The resulting chronic use can result in many psychological and physiological disorders.
Opinions? --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 20:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for taking so long to get back to this - had a bit of a busy 24 hours. I believe that this is a workable compromise, although I'm not the least bit opposed to
"alcoholism is the repeated use of ethanol despite one's best interests"
. We could fill in the details in later sentences. Robert Rapplean 23:35, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
"Marked by...disorders" means both that it results in these disorders, but also that it can be caused by these disorders, such as with a depressed person using alcohol to drown his sorrows. That is, the disorders may be found together with alcoholism, not only as a direct result of it. —Centrx? talk • 01:16, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Manual of style: lead section
Manual of style, a guide not a policy suggests:
In general, specialized terminology should be avoided in an introduction. Where uncommon terms are essential to describing the subject, they should be placed in context, briefly defined, and linked.
Thought this might help. You all are making real progress. Keep up the good work. -- FloNight talk 15:40, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Intro, second half
I'll copy in the remainder of the intro below this (I took the liberty of bluelinking "disease"). I wanted to offer an observation about cites: Cites are a good thing in any article and a necessity in a complex article, but the presence of 7 cites at the end of a single sentence suggests that a rewrite might be in order for the sake of clarification. Regarding the actual content of these sentences, I have no problems with what's being expressed there, but this is where your collective expertise is so important: is there a general consensus that this is a good representation of the issue?
- Most medical clinicians consider alcoholism an addiction and a disease influenced by genetic, psychological, and social factors and characterized by compulsive drinking with impaired control, and preoccupation with and use of alcohol despite adverse consequences. However, the disease theory is still controversial and there is disagreement on the issue after 200 years of debate. U.S. Supreme Court decisions, books and scientific journal articles demonstrate this lack of consensus.
While waiting for RR to get back to us, I followed the link to MOS which Flonight provided for us (above) and based on the guidelines there, I have a sketchy proposal for the second half of the intro (not even the actual words yet; just an idea about what needs to be there):
- Trim down what we have now to simply mention the epidemiology/controversy exists. Save all the details for the main body of the article.
- New sentence re: diagnosis and treatment. As above, this should be a brief mention without going into details.
- New sentence re: societal impact, politics and public health.
This is just my first thought after reading through things again. Any input? --Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 23:28, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's where we're starting:
- Most medical clinicians consider alcoholism an addiction and a disease influenced by genetic, psychological, and social factors and characterized by compulsive drinking with impaired control, and preoccupation with and use of alcohol despite adverse consequences. However, the disease theory is still controversial and there is disagreement on the issue after 200 years of debate. U.S. Supreme Court decisions, books and scientific journal articles demonstrate this lack of consensus.
I'd go here:
- Addiction Medicine specialists consider alcoholism an addiction and a disease influenced by genetic, psychological, and social factors (I'd leave out the rest of the sentence because we just gave the definition in the last paragraph). However, the disease theory is still controversial outside the physician community and there is disagreement on the issue after 200 years of debate. U.S. Supreme Court decisions, books and scientific journal articles demonstrate this lack of agreement.
Drgitlow 23:43, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
- While Addiction Medicine specialists consider alcoholism an addiction and a disease influenced by genetic, psychological, and social factors, the disease theory is not universally accepted, and still considered controversial by some practicioners, even after 200 years of research and debate.
- Most physicians consider alcoholism an addiction and a disease influenced by genetic, psychological, and social factors. The disease theory remains controversial, however, especially outside the physician community and there is disagreement on the issue after 200 years of debate. Medical Man 03:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reposted by Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 04:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Medical Man is absolutely correct to say that while the AMA may be the "voice" of American Medicine, it no longer has adequate membership to put the necessary oomph into its message. That said, the way the AMA develops policy is through a representative system made up of delegates from medical state and specialty societies. THOSE societies have much greater membership, and the specialty societies are probably much closer to 100%. So the AMA policy was established based upon a vote of the delegates from the other societies, not internally by its own members. One of the really strange things about the AMA is that if you're an AMA member but NOT a member of a state or specialty society, you actually have no voice at all within the AMA policy-making body. Another oddity is that the AMA could have no members at all yet would still represent American Medicine due to its house of delegates. That's a big reason why the AMA remains a powerful lobby in Washington (for good or bad) despite their primary membership being what it is.
I disagree with Medical Man's statement about physicians in which he notes that at least one in five doesn't agree. That was the result of a single non-random survey and an unvalidated source. I'm not saying it's not possible that the survey results aren't representative of physicians in general, but I'm saying it's highly unlikely. The type of survey that was conducted is the usual step that might be taken prior to conducting a research-oriented random survey.
But...and here's the best part...I'm pretty comfortable with MM's suggested revision. I'd probably amend the last sentence slightly to read: The disease theory remains controversial primarily outside the physician community, where there is disagreement on the issue after many years of debate. Drgitlow 04:05, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
- Medical Man 03:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC) reposted by Doc Tropics Message in a bottle 04:04, 8 July 2006 (UTC) and by Drgitlow 04:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
By the way, is it at all controversial that alcoholism falls into the addiction category? Don't we want to say that alcoholism is one of the addictions, and that most physicians also consider it a disease? Or is that getting way too picky? Drgitlow 04:10, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
I am going to make a suggestion in a new section below this one. This will in no way compete or take away from the existins tactical discussion you folks are having here. 06:02, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
So what we have so far is:
Alcoholism is the consumption of, or preoccupation with, alcoholic beverages to an extent that such use causes physical or mental harm, or interferes with the drinker's normal personal, family, social, or work life. The resulting chronic use can result in many psychological and physiological disorders. Most physicians consider alcoholism a
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